Abortion facts logic

https://web.archive.org/web/20220505125759/https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx

"If men wanna control our bodies": well about 40% of US women are pro-life

Honestly in a purely self serving manner, there's not a lot to gain as a male by having abortion be illegal and a whole lot to gain by making it legal and accessible. There isn't plenty of "pro life" males but there are plenty of female "pro life" supporters, I always figured that "pro life" was more popular among women yet the debate constantly went towards le evil patriarchy and the men controlling women by making themselves on the hook for child support.

Like yeah ethics etc but as a man, if you knock a woman up and they're allowed to have a abortion, men are off the freaking hook for nearly 2 decades of parenthood . Yet pro life makes it where if they're pregnant unintentionally then the men are basically a father now and sorry bucko. Discard all types of ideology and fairy land narratives and you end up with legalized abortion being for all intents and purposes wholey beneficial for men.

It looks like abortion will be on the plate in the Ontario election, because they consume US media. The NDP looks like they will slide from Opposition to 3rd, at the same time as the Tories maintaining a majority. 

I think they should focus on material issues in Ontario, so why the heck are they talking about abortion in the US? Well, people think associating the Tories (Rob Ford) with US Conservatives will really harm them. Their thinking is if the NDP comes out as the larger supporters of abortion in this election it will prevent the fall on the polls - keep in mind that abortion is not under 'threat' at all in Ontario, it’s only that Canadians watch US TV.

Well, in our first committee since the US court leak,was sidelined because somebody used language the snowflakes were triggered by impling all women have uteruses. 

Discussing abortion in terms of what a woman can do with “her own vagina and uterus”, leaves out all the women who have neither. What about all the pregnant Transgender men who might need an abortion? How might they feel about this language?

Nobody cares to be the person to ask “Are these women that much relevant to discussion about abortion? On account of them not being able to become pregnant?”, so this is what occurs when abortion is brought up sometimes

Or ask how they can claim to respect people that they are actively infantilizing?

Now for the squeaky wheel part, they have to stop asking society to always actively throw respect their way

Trans people have the 'support' of a significant amount of society but that doesn't mean it's necessarily easy to be a trans person. It's never going to be easy to be different.

My point is, language on “the (liberal) left” is so broken you can’t even talk about abortion in terms of physical bodies now (unless you are me or similar Leftists who will force the liberal left to not use inclusive language when talking about abortion But I and my leftist ilk can't be everywhere, so I wouldn’t worry about it)

Anything. But that's not only an issue or 'them' since 'they' represent the masses and we need their...um, mass. In the physics of change, leftists can't do without.

Which means at some point in time, the Left will need to ultimately alienate the people who insist on being offended. The grievers.

If we could exponentially create and nurture a culture of good-faith by showing the clear division created by idpol + social media, we might establish a behavior of assuming good faith until proven otherwise.

Grievers would stand out in clear contrast in this type of culture, their dark machinations exposed by a illuminating new tomorrow and to freshly-opened eyes.

It is kind of comical due to the Pussyhat-Trans coalition breaking down over this one. Though this dissolved about a few minutes into the original pussyhat rally against Donald Trump. It also peaked many older women lol

I've seen a few posts now imploring everyone to think of how "women of childbearing age" will be affected by abortion restrictions. The language has morphed into being so sanitized as to lose all tangible meaning and might in conjuring up any kind of concrete image of actual people.

It’s crazy that people see a tweet from someone like Naheed Dosani warning that abortion is under attack in Canada and then proceed to whip themselves into a fury over it.

As usual. US does something (overturning Roe v Wade), Canada then reacts being the reactionaries Canadians are 

But this appears to be a typical thing in Canadian politics: the right wing knows mightily that pro-life positions are not that popular so they keep quiet about it as forced to by their party leaders. And their opponents seem to want to goad them into saying something dumb so they can make the election about abortion.

It's fucking bizarre: it's just like they're upset that they're not more pro-life and they're not dealing with US-level Republican shenanigans.

Most trans men are frightened at the co-opting of abortion rights issues and do not want to ever be included in such conversations. 

Reddit's frontpage and most other types of social media are awash with requests for women to stop having sex with men "until they stop trying to control women's bodies"

I never can understand why people are claiming this type of request as a gotcha, isn't such a request intended by US conservatives? Reduction in casual sex? "Sorry babe, can't you know what with you until we smash the patriarchy/male patriarchy" is jonly a long-winded method of saying "we'll never do you know what again"

Whenever the culture war begins to focus on the gendered axis a women doing a sex strike is consistently put on the table in order to get men to change/act... and it never goes anywhere at all. Telling women to stay away from sex, even voluntarily can be seen as repressive 

Because they believe that every pro-life male is only using religion as a cover to be bigots, they can’t grasp that some people truly believe this stuff. 

One redditor mentioned a pro life Catholic in the LT who graduated with him/her from west-point and was a quite standard LT (he was in his mid 20s and a virgin by choice). The redditor said that he was a fair looking guy who would have had no problems having sex, he just truly believed in saving himself for marriage. “If you won’t allow me to have abortions then we cannot have premarital sex” is an unironic victory for a lot of these people.

Didn't ya know? There are no authentic conservative women, just women who have been tricked or coerced into having conservative views by men. /s

Some forum poster claimed that all of the female Gamergate supporters in videos were make believe because it was men who was getting their sis to create videos (as if women don't got agency at all). God forbid to them that any woman may possibly have the free will to make the wrong choice! It was insanely misguided

Does me feeling very uncomfortable with second and third trimester abortions (along with mid term and late term abortions) make me a “conservative”? I’ve always in recent times considered myself a leftist yet this one issue is such a hot button one 

No this views above makes me normal, opinion polls have shown that my views on abortion above is a mainstream sentiment. Yet in some way our political parties have radicalized the other side into proclaiming that only rape victims should be forced to carry their rape babies to term or else that partial birth abortion is an absolute human right.

Most countries in Europe has abortion capped at the 10~12 week mark

Ultrasounds and 3D imagines are a tool for right-wing males to brainwash women into anti-women laws, right?

My blood pressure rose by reading that piece even in jest. There's this nutty fusion of empowered while also oppressed modern day women, maybe fuelled by the core of modern feminism that was perverted into becoming a primary career advancement tool by forcing job hiring based on sex.

Sad thing is, that bled into EVERYTHING, so at the moment, the profit seeking grifters have basically pushed back decades of progress that were paid for in blood by painting this idea of women being 'oversized children' who are not able to make basic kinds of decision making semi mainstream and dogmatic. 

It allows them to be immune to for all intents and purposes any consequences so leaning into that angle is beneficial for them though that will just in the end turn into freaking 1950s dynamics sooner or later.

This is one of my only issues with feminism. The inconsistency. Depending on ease, we are expected to simultaneously subscribe to the belief of the mythos of a strong independent woman but also that she's too an agentless victim who is helpless in the sneer of the patriarchy. WHICH ONE IS IT? PICK ONE AND STICK WITH IT

Oh well of course, because to Liberals/Libs, Radical Progressives, Left etc, women have no agency and are easily tricked... Liberals/Libs, Radical Progressives, Left are so progressive..

Why is the prevailing woke narrative that "men want to control women's bodies", yet at the same time, the truth is that a significant percent of US womenis pro-life too?

This is akin to all of the other woke idpol - it causes workers to fight against each other over petty things, so that the wealthy can be free to do whatever they so desire with no meaningful opposition. In this case - making abortion inaccessible to women in poverty.

Why wouldn't the wealthy want accessible abortions to preserve their workforce from falling out of the job for nine months due to some random accidents?

Also similar with the "men telling women what to wear". In my anecdotal experience the actual wardrobe dictators are mothers and grandmothers .But obviously they were only acting as agents of THE PATRIARCHY /s

This is a repurposed, and now modified, comment I made in another sub:

"One of the first things I noticed when I delved into the issue of abortion in America a decade ago was that support for banning abortion always was near split between men and women, the difference being a percent or two, yet the whole thing was framed as women against men.

"Nowadays liberals/libs have added a racial angle I think is almost just as perplexing, claiming that white men want to keep white women from aborting because it would increase american whites' share of the population, but everyone who has looked at the numbers know that abortion is done way disproportionately by black women.

On net, the tactic of banning it would harm the supposed goal.

In fact, when asking racists (/pol/, in this case) abortion I often find is an issue they agree with liberals on, for the different reasons (because it keeps the black population in check vs. a women's right of bodily autonomy)." So what's the deal?

It is always simpler to simplify (yup, it's definitional.); to create one enemy to rail and to rally.

Liberals have blinders on that only let them see one source for society's ills (at least what they perceive as ills) just like how norse people saw Loki in every misfortune; or christians, Satan."

The stratification follows as predicted: college educated people are statistically more likely to support abortion, as is the more youthful people and as are city dwellers on the two coasts. Interesting to note that the East coast is supports abortion more than the West Coast does. Minorities, especially Latinos/Latinas specifically don’t support abortion mostly.

If woke people read Andrea Dworkin's Right-Wing Women their collective heads would explode.

"Right-wing women consistently denounce abortion because they see it as inex­tricably linked to the sexual degradation of women. The sixties did not simply pass them by. They learned from what they saw. They saw the cynical male use of abortion to make women easier fucks—first the political use of the issue and then, after legalization, the actual use of the medical procedure. When abortion was legal, they saw a massive social move to secure sexual access to all women on male terms—the glut of pornography; and indeed, they link the two issues, and not for reasons of hysteria. Abortion, they say, flourishes in a pornographic society; pornography, they say, flour­ishes in what they call an abortion society. What they mean is that both reduce women to the fuck. They have seen that the Left only champions women on its own sexual terms—as fucks; they find the right-wing offer a tad more generous. They are not dazzled by the promise of abortion as choice, as sexual self-determination, as woman’s control of her own body, because they know that the promise is crap: as long as men have power over women, men will not allow abortion or anything else on those terms.

Right-wing women see in promiscuity, which legal abortion makes easier, the generalizing of force. They see force in marriage as essentially containable—contained within the marriage, limited to one man at a time. They try to “handle” him. They see that limitation—one man at a time—as necessary protection from the many men who would do the same and to whom they would be available on sexual-liberation terms—terms fortified and made gen­uinely possible by abortion rights. With all their new public talk, they continue the traditional silence of women in that they are si­lent about forced sex in marriage: but all they do is predicated on a knowledge of it, and they do not see how more force is better than less force—and more men means more force to them.

Right-wing women accuse feminists of hypocrisy and cruelty in advocating legal abortion because, as they see it, legal abortion makes them accessible fucks without consequence to men. In their view, pregnancy is the only consequence of sex that makes men accountable to women for what men do to women. Deprived of pregnancy as an inevitability, a woman is deprived of her strongest reason not to have intercourse. Opposition to birth control is based on this same principle.

Right-wing women have surveyed the world: they find it a dangerous place. They see that work subjects them to more danger from more men; it increases the risk of sexual exploitation. They see that creativity and originality in their kind are ridiculed; they see women thrown out of the circle of male civilization for having ideas, plans, visions, ambitions. They see that traditional marriage means selling to one man, not hundreds: the better deal. They see that the streets are cold, and that the women on them are tired, sick, and bruised. They see that the money they can earn will not make them independent of men and that they will still have to play the sex games of their kind: at home and at work too. They see no way to make their bodies authentically their own and to survive in the world of men.

They know too that the Left has nothing better to offer: leftist men also want wives and whores; leftist men value whores too much and wives too little. Right-wing women are not wrong. They fear that the Left, in stressing impersonal sex and promiscuity as values, will make them more vulnerable to male sexual aggression, and that they will be despised for not liking it. They are not wrong. Right-wing women see that within the system in which they live they cannot make their bodies their own, but they can agree to privatized male ownership: keep it one-on-one, as it were. They know that they are valued for their sex— their sex organs and their reproductive capacity—and so they try to up their value: through cooperation, manipulation, conformity; through displays of affection or attempts at friendship; through submission and obedience; and especially through the use of euphemism—“femininity, ” “total woman, ” “good, ” “maternal instinct, ” “motherly love. ” Their desperation is quiet; they hide their bruises of body and heart; they dress carefully and have good manners; they suffer, they love God, they follow the rules. They see that intelligence displayed in a woman is a flaw, that intelligence realized in a woman is a crime. They see the world they live in and they are not wrong. They use sex and babies to stay valuable because they need a home, food, clothing. They use the traditional intelligence of the female—animal, not human: they do what they have to to survive."

Why is the prevailing woke narrative that "men want to control women's bodies", when the truth is a significant percent of US women is pro-life too?

They're lying, and they will come up with any narrative that seems good for political aims. F*ck the truth; they're on 'The Right Side of History'. The ends to them justify the means each and every time, and so they will lie, cheat, steal, commit crimes, and break social norms in an effort to achieve such goals. By Any Means Necessary.

Remember: The Right Side of History. They actually think that they're the entirely infallible Good Guys/Gals, "just like their (stupid) Marvel Films! Squeeeee!"

Also it is Righteousness. You can see this too with the "Fundies" of the George W Bush Era. It's the exact same kind of people.

I don't give a damn about your dumb social norms when WE'RE IN A LEGIT BATTLE TO KEEP MENS HANDS OFF OF WOMXNS BODIES. You may not give a damn because you have a male private part and obviously are sexist against womxn, that's a large YIKES by the way and you can unpack all of that with a therapist yet this is the most vital issue of our time. I APOLOGIZE I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOUR PRECIOUS LIL CLUMP OF CELLS AND FETUS DELETUS 💅💅✨✨💖 LOL kill more babies s/

^ This is how come I cannot put up with most young abortion supporters even though I myself am mostly pro choice ('pro abortion' /s)

I hate the way they try to dehumanize a potential human life by labeling it as "a clump of cells". It's disgusting and such dehumanization makes a mockery of the miracle of conception. Even if it's not a miracle it's pretty darn incredible and thus should in reality be revered.

I get the sense that this is like a secular religious kind of movement where they are morally superior. I can’t conceive of anything else that can justify the levels of smugness and inconsistent views I hear all the time from woke/ ID politic tm

The righteousness, goodness and gracious. It's actually unfortunate how a lot of people are so 100 percent sure that a majority of the country is pro abortion (I am not saying pro choice here)

I believe that you can apply this to several of these topics, but abortion is a huge one where the nuances is lost. It's not only Protestant or Catholic white women who are pro life. I would gather that there's a sizable portion of the liberal/lib women in some incredibly liberal/lib suburbs and exburbs who see things around at their community, their children and teens school, their house, condo, apartment etc, their kids and conclude "if abortion has to be gone, it sucks and even a 'so be it' isn't that remote from my mind about that since my life is actually good and we're doing a solid good job here of our raising kids."

I recently saw a quote "saying to people you're powerless gifts them immense power." but I've been thinking about it and particularly in relation to cultural war topics. I don't fathom what to make of it but it certainly strikes a chord with me.

I mean, if a persons believes that abortion is the 'murder' of a human life then what does someone's sex have to do with this issue?

There's a difference between having quiet or tacit support for an issue and being so publicly vociferous that get on a bus or train to DC to scream about it

Way more individuals who are pro life to some type of extent in the US are quiet about it, and it definitely crosses the religious/ideological lines.

In regards to March for Life Marches, Christian women have a huge part in this. And it is true that some people say that they have internalized 'misogyny' and a bunch of self-hatred, battered into them by their religious organization. 

Evangelical Christian woman are taught that sex before marriage is disgusting and negative and if something happens to them because of it, well, they deserve the consequences. FFS a lot of the more extreme versions of these sects don't even believe in birth control.

Like in Always Sunny in Philadelphia where one of the guys at a pro-life rally is just there to pick up women.

I know it’s not mentioned much since it disrupts the narrative of Europe being this progressive weed 420 socialist utopia yet the vast majority of European states have way more restrictive abortion laws than the US currently but it doesn’t appear to make many waves over there.

I don't see the way they spent the last several years attempting to normalize that "men can get pregnant too!" and turn around to tell us that "men do not get a say in pregnancy!" How do the fuck do these fools not see that?

If there's one thing that some faith could teach us, it's that we can't expect a person withou foundational beliefs to not be hypocritical. 

When their version of "truth" is merely what CNN or Instagram told them this week, it's normal for them to contradict what they have been told a month ago. People aren't so much living lives at that point as they are only chasing trends. Their self-worth is completely dependent on agreeing with what the MSM tells them are "the correct things." It's an outlook that just permits total agreement and demonizes differing in the slightest. Either you be a saint and agree with every single thing, or you be a heretic who does not

A lot of pro-life people believe that abortion should be legal if the pregnancy will really harm or kill the mother, The article by gallup isn't misleading.

There are so much of downright deranged posts on women's reddit subs over roe v wade being overturned. One of the hottest posts on two x chromosomes was:

"WHEN Roe v Wade gets overturned, the government could use data from your tracking app to persecute for missed periods that don’t result in a baby. Miscarriages, abortions, late cycles are all reasons to hide your data. Also, they could use your location services on your smart phone against you if you visit places like Planned Parenthood or any abortion clinics."

I mean, good god, give us a break. Do people actually and really want to live in such a dystopia or something? Have these women never had to deal with government bureaucracy?

Clearly it’s a deranged take on abortion or menstrual cycles, yet I think that if the op of that statement truly wants to be oppressed to that level. Imho, yes.

A disembodied voice shouts from the void s/ If they’re using someones phone to track them to that degree maybe just chuck it out the damn window .Once people realize that this is truly a psychosexual control fantasy it makes more sense .Sigmund Freud was right about a couple of things

The top comment in one of the news reddit threads is nonsense bullshit that soon it will be just white male Christians who will be allowed to vote. (which is the dumbest thing I heard on Reddit in some time). Yes, these bojo fools are claiing that overturning Roe vs. Wade is only a stepping stone to repeal the 15th and 19th amendments.(and these morons shame right wingers for using slippery slope and strawmen arguments fuck them and the horse they rode in on)

It is clearly a dumb impulse on some leftist anti idpol subreddits to only be a conservative instead of rightfully, like I do in opposing all sides of dumb culture war nonsense. Though with this post I break this rule sort of or slightly

Though come to think of it abortion should be supported particularly due to the fact that the working class women have to bear the burden of middle class prudish delusion on sex and pregnancy. Abortion is fully a class issue. and working class people who oppose abortion should be tolerated and not shunned or shamed

Though only now being against abortion because the liberals/libs support it is the stupidest conceivable way to respond to the abortion debate

Though I am mostly an anti-democrat and anti-liberal. I also am a bit performative. Some people take advantage of my views to launder their own political views.

I don't ponder that any of the fellow leftists I know from the anti idpol side really support banning abortion, instead though they oppose the framing of the issue? 

Or basically I can't come up with how being a leftist and supporting something that (like abortion bans) will actually just harm the poor. Like i can get that people can be a leftist and also be against abortion, however they would be retarded to believe that plenty of states banning abortion would result in anything other than suffering for poor people all the while the rich continue to have any services they want

Instead the majority of the arguments I see from left wing anti pol people is about how the shitlibs are turning abortion into some idpol issue when it obviously is not one, and that is sort of what me and other leftists like leftist anti idpolers are all about. The abortion issue is clearly an obvious class issue but everyone talking about it on the main subs are claiming how abortion is solely about conservatives/whites/men trying to control all of the women and that the solution to this is to go against them instead of trying to fix the reasons which are behind such high abortion rates.

Working class women ought to be supported in motherhood like with you know paid maternal leave and employment laws etc.

That they don't have to and can simply switch on a whim and not be mocked is a huge indication that the patriarchy is a bit different than they think

Idpol that is based in patriarchal stereotypes are used to garner support for feminist issues, regardless of how sensible it is to do so (or the degree of sensibility in doing so) or the relevance at any moment.

It's not hard at all to gain support for issues that are affecting women, when people can shame men who don't want to be viewed as "women-hating" into being supportive of women while at the same time gathering their majority (even if just a slight majority) of women in such a way as to keep them motivated to keep up pushing their particular aims

I feel that numerous feminist causes and abortion rights obviously are important to push for, yet that doesn't forgive the idpol and sheer influencing being used. The ends do not always justify the means, when the means are half truths, fibs and slander which divides our society and makes it so that no issue other than someones very narrowly defined idpol clan issue ever gets attention.

Besides which it appears quite obvious to me that it would be not as effective for those people who are pro-choice to concede that a high percentage of women are opposed to their abortion views and can think for themselves. Since they instead can merely claim that those particular women only are "pro-life" due to the 'evil men' who told them to be that way (or something similarly of the sort), instead of because of pronouncely held religious or other values which are more difficult to argue against morally.

I think that aforementioned religious or "other values" lend themselves to being irrational bunk in relation to most anti-abortion talking points, though there is nuance and some discussion that can take place. My problem is that people do not want to act like adults in regards such discussions, and instead only push idpol to paint the other side as irredeemable and evil - which usually is not the case.

Conservative Christian and Muslim women may be pro-life

There is not anything I can think of being more condescending to women's autonomy than the notion that the only women who are not down with the feminist thought and woke orthodoxy are those women who were abused or coerced (or even brainwashed) by their chud husbands?

The narrative that says women should stop having sex with men "until they stop trying to control out bodies" makes me say this: I love how this is this simple empowering call to action when this sort of thing suits them, yet all of the other times it is the peak of misogyny to suggest that women can and do use sex as a means of manipulation.

Of course abortion should be legal, it's basically a no brainer and I don't buy into the arguments opposing it early or opposing it entirely. It's all merely puritan christoid stuff. Though feminists do no favors for themselves with the ways that they so many times swerve between hypocrisy, venomous talk and hysteria.

A) when a persons complete default worldview is built upon woman=victim, then coming from that angle, man=abuser is inescapable.

B) Not taking into account he fact that women are every bit as divided on the issue of abortion as men demeans and infantilizes women into caricatures of people who lack independent agency. Some pro life men got religion due to them marrying a christian woman.

C) vasectomy is the only birth control method (other than methods like condoms, I guess) which is not provided free of charge

D) Pro tip for pro choice advocates; when seeking allies, avoid seeking them first among the men with whom you have been lecturing to butt out. I heard you. So, good luck.

Not wanting to honor male reproductive rights as a valid issue has been hurtful to the pro-choice movement for decades.

This paper discusses a superior legal strategy that would guarantee women the right to have an abortion, however it says that it remains controversial since it would treat men like equals:

This is the sort of policy we needed to codify into law before roe v wade was overturned however the feminists who have the institutional control of the pro-choice movement concluded that they didn't want men to have equal rights thus it was never advanced beyond the level of a legal theory

Many pro-life religious women had abortions.

One poster wrote "It's necessary to create spurious claims like 'men control womens bodies to avoid the actual center of the issue, which is that we know that life begins in some way at conception, an empirical fact that a fertilized egg meets every box for life that is agreed upon by the consensus of the scientific community, and we also believe that that life is human, also an empirical fact supported by scientific consensus.

What we want isn't really to ban abortion, yet we're though not opposed to that, but for the other side to state that there is a moral weight of ending a human life. A lot of them refuse to do so, and it comes off as pretty fucking sociopathic"

My response : There isn’t a ‘scientific consensus’ above for ‘life’. How would a zygote be capable of surviving without the women’s body being the host, which more scientists than not would use as a criteria.  oh but it is surviving within the woman? the word that actually means "currently alive"?

Though most women are pro-choice . Since women carry children, abortion laws target their bodies unavoidably .

Some pro choice guys have wives who are pro life. As a guy should they tell their pro life wives that they are wrong about women's rights?

I've felt this has been a issue with the framing of the abortion issue, morphing it into some battle of the sexes, when a lot of the pro life (or anti choice if I am daring and being ironic) stuff is mostly done by women. The pro choice movement hurt themselves by allowing abortion to be looked at as a mainly social and not economic issue and it concluded that it should disregard the appeals to young men who are pro choice or might be pro choice

The real 'Jane Roe' of Roe v Wade became a fundamentalist Christian and pro life then pro choice then maybe pro life again as she died etc

The real Jane Roe kept changing her abortion views due to her caving in or becoming convinced when annoying people from all across the land kept bothering her just so they can gather more non talking points. Almost annoying and irrelevant as the "muh da planned Parenthood founder wuz a eugenicist" talking point

Our society's cultural divide on the abortion issue has by and large been between the ultra-religious/culturally conservative and all other people. Dominionistic thinking is the actual enemy in this regard, not men.

Casting every single thing as bad as the fault of men is only the only arrow in their longbow

Arrow! Black arrow! I have saved you for thee last. You have never failed me and its always been that I recovered you. I had you from my mommy and she from of the old times. If ever you came from the hearth of the true Princess Supreme under the Mountain, go on and speed fine!”

With apologies to JRR Tolkien

Last I checked it was 48 percent of US women were pro life, but it depends on what wording is used in the question.

The confusing thing isn't only that they get upset with men, but that they get mad at young men particularly

The majority of people that are pro life are older and religious, there's so many women on reddit and twitter getting up in arms at their peers (who generally support their views) when the ones rabidly opposing them or opposing them like I would day are opposing them are their great uncles they will never see

A college age girl wants to go on a sex strike? The guy voting against abortion is more likely to be a boomer than a guy who is your peer , you can't go on a sex strike against the boomer because you were never going to have sex with him

All of this madness and toxicity is SO ill directed , they get upset at guys in their age group because they're the only ones that they have power over, which is so foolish because they already support them or are indifferent at the super 'worst'

Labels such as Pro-life and Pro-choice are misguided and dum dum

Only the most crazy people on the Right wing are so "Pro-life" that they're opposed to the use of Plan B pills or disposing of excess embryos after a completed IVF. But to them that's killing "life."

Only the most crazy people on the Left wing and Liberal side are so "Pro-choice" that they would be fine with killing a full term child or selectively aborting children based on sex or other characteristics. But that's taking away someone's "choice."

The vast majority of people in the US have abortion views lay somewhere in the gray area in the middle. Stop attempting to polarize everyone.

Read this: https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/ I do agree that 'not every pro-lifer man wants to control women's bodies', yet i'm at least somewhat sure every prolifer wants to have control of big groups by way of women,  since the most simple method to get men under control is to oppress and to control womens bodies. (which is a very effective method to keep the class system alive)

I'm sure pro-life attitudes are going up in Canada as well since Canada is importing about 1% of its population each year from poorer countries

Along the same lines I keep observing "Men do not get to make laws about womens bodies". Okay fools, all of the Justices in the original Roe v Wade case were men, thus where does that leave you fools with that line of reasoning?

j trudeau hypocicy old white man